In a rather revealing interview with The Village Voice, former SST Records co-owner and Black Flag bassplayer, Chuck Dukowski has revealed just how much of a douchebag his former bandmate and business partner Greg Ginn really is. Chuck talks about sending debt collectors around to receive royalty payments and the well documented legal injunction filed by Ginn against Dukowski's latest band Flag.
Ginn is currently in the country disappointing longtime fans with his latest reincarnation of Black Flag. The new Black Flag album, "What The?" complete with the world's worst artwork can be streamed or located online and in a nutshell is simply terrible. Below is a short excerpt from the 3 page interview that can be read in full here.
What would you say is your worst memory about SST? Best memory?
My worst memory of SST was going to jail for contempt of court so that Black Flag could continue to use their name. I had already been muscled out of the band. I really went to jail for Henry [Rollins]. He had only recently joined Black Flag, I felt responsible for him, I had chosen him to sing and I wanted him to have a future. There are too many good memories for me to choose just one...People complain but I had a great time! It was work but it was beautiful! It was important and I feel grateful for it!
You were with SST from the beginning, co-owner til 1990 then worked there through the 90's. What was exactly your role after you quit BF in '83 until you left there for good?
I was a full partner in SST until the end of 1989. I did every job there was to do, including pick bands, which I was good at. There was so much great music put out by SST at one time. Sonic Youth, The Meat Puppets, Hüsker Dü, The Minutemen--there was so much wonderful music. It was inspiring. After I left Black Flag I went to Germany, where my mother was from, and I thought I would stay there. I came back to the U.S. to serve my time in jail for the Black Flag contempt charge. The partners in SST Records at that time asked me to come back to help run the label--and I did. Eventually, I sold my partnership in SST and started a family. I continued to work for SST for a while without realizing how Greg was stealing from everyone. I wish I had realized sooner. I quit the day I did.
What kind of terms did you depart SST on?
I quit because it sucked.
What was the environment like "in the office" in those later years?
At the end it was depressing and ugly. I can only marvel at how grim it must be now.
How did the SST model evolve, or devolve, from the early years, from say, 1990 and on?
You can just look at all the groundbreaking albums that SST released to the lame vanity label it is today. It's tragic.
You had a project brewing with Eugene Robinson from Oxbow called Black Face where you'd be performing your songs and tunes you wrote in BF. Recently, Robinson said you bailed on it. What happened? Will Black Face, or some iteration of it, materialize?
Eugene is incredibly talented and great. What an intense performer, he is unique in this world! I am so proud of the single we released. It is powerful and chilling. I am not ruling out doing something again some day with Black Face. It just wasn't the right time for me.
In that interview with Robinson, he mentioned that he actually got a check from Ginn for an Oxbow record SST put out in 1989. It's been well-documented Ginn owes people money, Keith expressed that in an OFF! song ("I Got News For You") and in an interview the Voice did with him...
Ginn has been inconsistent with his payments to me. My understanding is that he owes money to Keith and Henry.
That said, if you were to venture a guess on how much money Ginn owes you, what would that amount be?
Oh, jeez. I have had to have a Marshall go into his Texas offices to demand payments. It's crazy.
Why do you think Ginn doesn't honor his debts?
Honestly, there is no logic to it that I can understand.
When you got word of the lawsuit that he filed against Keith and Rollins, what was the first thought that crossed your mind?
Greg actually sued all of us. He is still trying to get a restraining order against FLAG from performing. It was surreal to see the legal papers released by The Hollywood Reporter before we had even been served ourselves!